Progression riding questions
Haha well I can get round further than 150, but I can not have my upper body and lower body have a full 180 split. If I was on my board, while my lower body could have the board down the hill, my upper body would be facing up the hill to skiers right.
My point was that you cannot use the lower body to initiate the spin. Therefore you have to use upper body wind during take off to perform the trick. You can’t start separation in the air.
Yeah, he already said, maybe you have to rotate about 30 degrees first. So it makes sense now.
Okay so I just did a few lounge room 180s
and what I found was what rider said was true (with out being too picky & exact) you can actually keep you’re upper body still and just rotate your lower body 180. It’s kinda hard though with out the upper body rotating the opposite way. Or using some rotation at the start.
Then I read Riders post and he says there may be about 30 degrees rotation in there.
Then I read Sams post that he can only separate 150 degrees…....... wait for it…. here it comes….
150 + 30 = 180!
Problem solved
double post. can delete
Boys, I thought about this all night. Practised it countless times last night and even this morning. I’d really like to film myself using this technique so I can show you. Perhaps I can even show you in person this season.
What I’m saying is this:
A backside 180 off the heelside edge can be performed by counter-rotation, with the upper body going in an anti-clockwise direction while the lower body rotates in a clockwise direction.
There needs to be some sort of pre-backside rotation with the upper body before you pop. This pre-rotation can be subtle; anywhere from say 15 to 45 degrees.
As you pop, your upper and lower bodies counter-rotate. Your upper body rotates in an anti-clockwise direction while the lower body rotates in a clockwise direction.
You can perform a backside 180 off the heelside edge this way.
The reason I believe this is an easier way to learn is because rotating backside off the heelside edge is hard to do. Let’s be honest, it’s not necessarily the easiest skill to teach or learn. Quite simply, counter-rotation helps you get the 180 rotation around. It makes it easier to do the rotation and therefor get the feeling for spinning backside the hard way. It’s a progression step (and actually looks really cool when done well).
I believe everything above to be true. This is from my experience doing it this way and because it was the way I was taught. I haven’t once dismissed the other methods for performing this trick. In my head, they all work. If you don’t believe me, we’re going to have to agree to disagree for now. Don’t dismiss it until you try it.
This discussion has been fun and really made me think about how I perform this trick. Is anyone else missing snowboarding right now or is it just me? Haha
ok i see where i was getting confused before from your description.
Upper body stays relatively straight, lower body rotates around to perform the 180, is that what you are implying by saying the “upper body counter rotates” whilst the lower body rotates?
And yes, i do miss boarding and Sunday cant come quick enough.
Yep, sounds right to me. Like you said, that 15-45 degrees pre-rotation is what allows it to be done.
I have done these kind of 180s myself.
When I was learning BS 180s I experimented with 3 different ways of doing them.
- All counter-rotation (The way Rider just described)
- All rotation
- Rotation and then counter-rotation.
The combination of the 2 is what got me landing them clean, but I have a Scottish mate who does them with all rotation every time and makes it look sick.
So I think people should learn all 3 and they can use different types in different situation (or to get themselves out of trouble if they stuff up)
Good discussion. It gets the thoughts of what is possible flowing.
And yes, very keen to float some back 180s over the park right now. 
now i can visualise them in my head. Now to put that to practise at Falls this weekend
ok i see where i was getting confused before from your description.
Upper body stays relatively straight, lower body rotates around to perform the 180, is that what you are implying by saying the “upper body counter rotates” whilst the lower body rotates?
And yes, i do miss boarding and Sunday cant come quick enough.
I simplified my explanation too much. Yeah, that’s what I was getting at.
I said the upper body stays relatively straight because your upper body ends up in a similar position to where it started at, i.e. pointing downhill. For regular, the left side of your upper body will still pretty much be pointing downhill when the board touches down.
yeh i get ya, knowing my lack of flexability it will prob be facing sideways!
Okay I’ve got it now! I see what you’re saying and how the movements go together. I’ve jumped up and tried it, and it works.
Would you also teach a bs 180 off the toes this way? I’m unsure that I would ever teach it like that, I feel someone should be comfortable doing a bs 180 off the toes before trying it off the heels, and so they should have no problem with the rotation movement required. I only believe doing hard way spins requires different center of balance, more edge focus and timing than a different rotation technique.
I think most people teach a lot of things the same, so it’s interesting when something like this shows up and people have different ideas on progressions and techniques.
I’d still be interested to see a video of it from you or someone who’s spent time and has experience doing it using that technique.
Would you also teach a bs 180 off the toes this way? I’m unsure that I would ever teach it like that, I feel someone should be comfortable doing a bs 180 off the toes before trying it off the heels, and so they should have no problem with the rotation movement required. I only believe doing hard way spins requires different center of balance, more edge focus and timing than a different rotation technique.
No, I definitely wouldn’t. It’s easier to pop off your toes and therefor easier to initiate the frontside off the toes rotation. This is the reason why counter-rotation is more important when going backside off the heels (it’s more difficult to pop and initiate the rotation). I don’t counter-rotate in the air when doing frontside off the toes; you just pre-wind then unwind the same you would for frontside off the heels. The standard spinning technique (pre-wind, unwind) works well for frontside off the toes.
Hey guys, I just went searching through some old footage and I found a video of me doing a back 180 off the heels 
Unfortunately it’s only a tiny one, not off a park jump like I was hoping to find. But I think it illustrates one way of doing them in a very relaxed way.
It will be ready to view in 30 minutes. Then I’ll throw it up here.
Sorry I don’t have any footage of doing them in the park. But here’s one way to do them.
It’s just a chilled out little back 180 off the heels. I was just cruising with a mate, having fun.
I do them a little differently off park jumps, this is more like what I use to 180 off rails.
But I think this is one way people could start trying them, starting on side hits or off a little cat track like this.
It’s a really mellow and cruisey way to do them.
Nice one, Andy! Makes me want to ride so badly. Is that hit off the cat track on Blackcomb on the way to the terrain garden?