The Role of ‘Reviews” in Snowboarding
I am just curious if many people here put any faith or validity into snowboard “reviews”, and if so, why?
To me, snowboard reviews seem utterly pointless and even counterproductive to having an understanding of how snowboards work and perform. I think its impossible for a review to convey any useful information about the board, boot or bindings being reviewed.
Reviews seem to come from 3 sources: Blogs, online stores, and message board discussions. These reviews commonly attempt to quantify such supposed inherent board characteristics such as “edge hold”, “short and big radius turns”, “pop” and “switch capabillity”. The bindings are usually graded on “flex” and “comfort”.
Blogs:
I really distrust any bloggers board reviews and here is why.
The first obvious issue with this is the fact that not many of those characteristics mentioned above are independent of the riders skill and technique. The second obvious issue is they are entirely subjective impressions. There are many intangible factors that are influence the reviewers impressions as well as some obvious ones such as terrain, snow quality, fatigue, weather, familiarity with the terrain, etc.
I think its safe to assume that if you put ten people on the same board you would get a variety of impressions of how the board performed. The reviewers imply boards just have inherent characteristics that come to light when you ride them, board X has this much (insert flowery adjective here) pop and board Y had that much pop….etc. Does a Custom X have better edge hold than a Never Summer Premier? Who could say? Wouldn’t you expect a very freeride oriented board to have great edge hold anyway? If a reviewer rides a freeride board but seems to be conveying it lacks edge hold does that mean the designers and engineers behind that board screwed up? It makes no sense to even try to quantify how much edge hold a board has. What were the conditions that day? Had the reviewer spent enough time on it to really get a feel for it? How different was the ride from what he/she was used too? Even if it was possible to quantify how much edge hold (or whatever) a board has, does that mean the results will be the same for everyone who rides that board? of course not, other factors such as weight, skill level, snow conditions etc will all factor in. At most you could safely say a board such as the Custom X has more edge hold than say a Dominant, but that should be pretty obvious to anyone who isn’t a complete beginner.
People who are new to snowboarding seem to gravitate to these kinds of reviews because they don’t understand that your riding experience is based more on the rider than the board. Sure some boards excel in some areas (a tapered board in pow, a very soft board for rails, a stiff board for freeriding) but most boards are built to do every kind of riding (or another way to look at it is there is only one kind of riding anyway). Why confuse novice or beginner snowboards with the idea that boards have a certain amount of pop or edge hold or whatever characteristic? Why not educate a new snowboarder that every board has its own “feel” and that most snowboards can do whatever you want them to but there is always some compromise? A board might be quite soft making it easy to press and forgiving on landings but that almost certainly means it won’t have the performance at high speeds or in choppy uneven snow that a stiff board would have. Why not take a minute to explain that in snowboarding you can’t measure how a board performs in the same way you can measure how a car performs and that it doesn’t really matter anyway? Its rare to find someone who is totally dissatisfied with their snowboard purchase, and if they are its either because they bought an entirely innapropriate size or width, or they are blaming their athletic short comings on their equipment.
Online Stores:
Any review of anything on an online sales site should probably be ignored. Some websites give points that can be exchanged for merchandise for reviews which leads to people reviewing everything from beanies to snowboards to socks to sunglasses holders usually with little or no attention to detail. Often any even slightly negative review will be pulled as to not upset manufacturers. One way some sites get around this is by having a forum that seems independent from the online store but really serves as a vehicle to promote sales and give aways etc. The last place anyone should look for advice on equipment to buy is on a forum or website that is trying to sell it to you.
Message Boards (Forums)
In my opinion the best place to get advice on equipment (i am being careful not to say “reviews of equipment”) is independent forums. This is not to say that you only get good advice from forums. The same issues that affect reviews coming from blogs can be magnified in forums. At least with a blog if you investigate you can get a sense of the blogger, on forums it literally could be anyone pushing advice and often threads turn into e-arguments that bury any useful info under an avalanche of crap.
That being said, if a forum is moderated well (not overly heavily handed), and has level headed experienced participants its likely you can come away with some good useful information. Unlike blogs discussions can develope that may lead to all the participants coming away more educated than before they started.
Although we are having product ‘reviews’ on the website, they aren’t really reviews. I know there is no way we could review every board, boots, or bindings on the market - and even if we did, what if my riding style is completely different to yours? For this reason I find most reviews completely useless, as you stated.
For that reason the way we went about the ‘reviews’ in a way I thought gave the best information about the product without any bias.
I selected the criteria for which I thought was the information people need to know when looking at a board quickly: Features, available sizes, type (freeride, all mountain, freestyle etc..), flex (stiffness), core flex (directional, twin), base etc…
I made the criteria into a template of required information and submitted it to all the reps of the different brands. The reps then had to fill out all the information I required - there isn’t really any reason for them to lie about the information, and there isn’t room to lie anyway. We then add images of the boards, and there you have basic information on the boards, so at least you can narrow down your selection to what you think would work well for your riding style/needs. What do you think?
From there I would strongly suggest you get first hand accounts from people who have used the boards - the forums are a great place, there is a lot of good experience on here. Your local snowboard store is another good place to get first hand advice - most the guys working there have probably tested a lot of the boards and they know what they’re talking about. One of the best things you can do is go to a demo day and test a few of the boards for yourself.
I think an answer depends on data of who the buyer is (the demographic)... which OK for the most part mught just be some kid’s mom or something… Without getting all into it, I think reviews play an important role to a select few.
First off, people enjoy sharing opinions on things.
Truth is that some opinions (or experience with a product) can be communicated in a way that would be beneficial to the reader…
But who takes the time? There is a select few who care, and for those few it is nice to read a review.
Although we are having product ‘reviews’ on the website, they aren’t really reviews. I know there is no way we could review every board, boots, or bindings on the market - and even if we did, what if my riding style is completely different to yours? For this reason I find most reviews completely useless, as you stated.
For that reason the way we went about the ‘reviews’ in a way I thought gave the best information about the product without any bias.
I selected the criteria for which I thought was the information people need to know when looking at a board quickly: Features, available sizes, type (freeride, all mountain, freestyle etc..), flex (stiffness), core flex (directional, twin), base etc…
I made the criteria into a template of required information and submitted it to all the reps of the different brands. The reps then had to fill out all the information I required - there isn’t really any reason for them to lie about the information, and there isn’t room to lie anyway. We then add images of the boards, and there you have basic information on the boards, so at least you can narrow down your selection to what you think would work well for your riding style/needs. What do you think?
From there I would strongly suggest you get first hand accounts from people who have used the boards - the forums are a great place, there is a lot of good experience on here. Your local snowboard store is another good place to get first hand advice - most the guys working there have probably tested a lot of the boards and they know what they’re talking about. One of the best things you can do is go to a demo day and test a few of the boards for yourself.
I would say the method you guys are using is not really a review, its more of a product presentation which is great. I think that could be useful if it adds something that the manufacturers website or literature doesn’t really say. I have noticed on other forums that guys like Johan from Capita do a much better job at describing a board than the massaged message the websites tend to present.. As big of a fan as I am of Burton i think they way the organize/describe/present their product description to be horrible, and its great that some of the designers/product managers actually post and reply to questions.
We need more of this style and less ‘one word summary” reviews.
. As big of a fan as I am of Burton i think they way the organize/describe/present their product description to be horrible, and its great that some of the designers/product managers actually post and reply to questions.
We need more of this style and less ‘one word summary” reviews.
I agree Burton, has horrible descriptions.
One thing I really dislike about reviews is when you get 10 of them and they all praise the product like it is the best item in the world.
I think they was you described a product PRESENTATION rather than review is a better idea, it tells the reader about the product.
I do think there is a way to offer an opinion to review it, but still be descriptive.
comments that are too general are not helpful.
comments that are all opinion and dont leave room for riders that have different preferences are not helpful.
I like to read the crap companies and shops write about boards- I think its funny. Some of them are not to bad, but everybody is trying to sell you something so just I take it all with a grain of salt. Forums are not to bad- but I never know if the person giving me advice know less than me.
Forums are not to bad- but I never know if the person giving me advice know less than me.
Werd to that..If you want to see bad reviews by many people who know nothing , Sierrasnowboards is an example…The problem there is that, for each “review”, you accumulate points towards free gear. This leads to bogus drivel and some very lame reviews that quite often are no more than—I like the graphics on the “X” better than the “Y”— and—The fish is a good powder board—
We don`t need reviews like that.
yeah we need more reviews by snowboarders dedicated to the specific area the board is designed for instead of people praising every aspect of the product simply to kiss the companys ass so they sell more of it. we need reliable forums from professionals who arent afraid to say the aspects of each board which are good and just as important, others which are crap and compare it to other boards from other companies so that people can actually make an educated guess as to which board to buy from which company to satisfy the aspect of riding they are most involved in.
because lord knows snowboards arent cheap, we need to know exactly what the pros AND cons of the product before we buy it.
Quality over quantity.
yeah we need more reviews by snowboarders dedicated to the specific area the board is designed for instead of people praising every aspect of the product simply to kiss the companys ass so they sell more of it. we need reliable forums from professionals who arent afraid to say the aspects of each board which are good and just as important, others which are crap and compare it to other boards from other companies so that people can actually make an educated guess as to which board to buy from which company to satisfy the aspect of riding they are most involved in.
because lord knows snowboards arent cheap, we need to know exactly what the pros AND cons of the product before we buy it.
i think you are missing the point. any reviewers pros and cons may not be your pros and cons. it hinks its actually incorrect to even think in those terms anyway. could you give me an example of what a “con” for a particular board could be? if some reviewer said the Rome Agent cons were .................. what exactly would that mean?
I ride several different boards each year, and none of them really have pros and cons that could be put out there as absolute values for the board. I could say a “con” of the 58 hero i was riding is that its kind of unnerving to ride at high speeds on icy conditons, but is that really a con of the board or just a limitation of its shape/design? would a lighter person than me have the same experience? what if you were used to riding a noodle? would it feel strangely unstable then?
the point is not to have people saying the banana is “better” than the hero (as an example) because (insert reason here) because if you asked 10 people which one they like better its not going to be unanimous.
but if someone starts a topic asking for peoples opinions/impressions of the burton her, THEN we can have a conversation. I hope people can see the difference between a review and a discussion.
I board A is stiffer than board B. it isnt ‘too stiff’. It is just more stiff, and it may be too stiff for the reviewer, but that should be stated as so. “This board was too stiff for my preferences.”
“The board has a very small sidecut radius and is capable of a very narrow radius carved turn”
Not
“The board turns too sharp and it twitchy.”
There is opinion which I think can be included, but it should be a description of the board not solely your opinion. Because if the review just says the board sucks, that means nothing to me. I have to know why.
what i meant by pros and cons wernt entirely aspects of the board like flex or softness etc i was more thinking of what area of the mountain the board may be strong or weak.
what i was supposed to say was that we need more reviews by snowboarders who ARENT dedicated to the area the board is designed for. i only say this because for example, people may read an amazing review on a short park board and be oblivious to the fact that it may be crap on powder days. i am referring to people unlike yourself who only have one snowboard to ride, i.e cant afford to have 2 or more boards to select from depending on what they want to ride that day. people who have to choose one board to suit their whole style.
i only just actually read what you said to start this discussion after reading your last comment about the difference between a review and a discussion and your exactly right, i was therefore wrong for referring to ‘review’ because i agree that to get the best understanding of a board, you need differing opinions from people who will ride that board in different areas so you can see which point of view you relate to most so you can decide whether it suits your style of riding or not.
so yeah, to get the best understanding, you would want to do what you suggest - to request peoples opinions/impressions of boards for their GIVEN STYLE OF RIDING and not necessarily argue about it but let people see what sort of riding preference works well with the board and what doesnt. then it comes back to whether these people actually know what theyr talking about or not. a good way is having forums like this where you can seperate an ‘administrator’ post from a ‘newbie’ post so you can see more reliable opinions from industry professionals by having them logged in as administrators or something.
then again i am still a ‘newbie’ and havent bought a snowboard for like 3 years so the shitty reviews i used to read to find the right board may have changed and i also havent seen a burton ‘her’ (?) before but i know the rome agents are sick and to me they have no cons because that basically sums up my style of riding.