New Zealand 2011
Crackers, you’re doing a lot of generalizing there. You CANNOT say that a spot with tracks will be safer than a spot without. The safest spot is dictated by the terrain ie stay on ridge lines and away from convex rolls and terrain traps
Also, your arguments against pit digging aren’t too valid. The argument against pit digging is that the pit that you dig may not be representative of the entire slope you’ll be riding.
I would say a pit def helps if you haven’t been following the weather and are new to the area. Digging a pit will give you an idea of what’s hidden in the layers.
It can also tell you to get the hell out of Dodge if you are getting failures on weak hits.
Crackers, you’re doing a lot of generalizing there. You CANNOT say that a spot with tracks will be safer than a spot without. The safest spot is dictated by the terrain ie stay on ridge lines and away from convex rolls and terrain traps
Also, your arguments against pit digging aren’t too valid. The argument against pit digging is that the pit that you dig may not be representative of the entire slope you’ll be riding.
I would say a pit def helps if you haven’t been following the weather and are new to the area. Digging a pit will give you an idea of what’s hidden in the layers.
It can also tell you to get the hell out of Dodge if you are getting failures on weak hits.
of course you can. If there is 40 sets of tracks down a valley and the one next to it is empty and I was a little unsure about which to take, id take the one with 40 sets of tracks everytime. granted it can still go, but you are taking a line 40 other people have tested against a line no one else has (not to even mention that at least some of them that beat you up are likely to be locals with more experience etc etc).
Also, your arguments against pit digging aren’t too valid. The argument against pit digging is that the pit that you dig may not be representative of the entire slope you’ll be riding.
...im aware of that argument, but that isnt the angle im coming from, mine is more that people thinking they know what they are doing and in reality have no where near enough experience with them as they need, then they are over confident and get into bad situations. I’ve seen quite a few dug and the people digging them try to explain exactly what they were doing…....most of them (not all) sounded like new age hippie and dodgy alternative medicine practitioners. I’d like to see you dig 5 pits across a slope and get/ film 5 people talking about what they see/think and then compare. I suspect you’d get a wide range of answers about how safe the slope was.
I’m reluctant to change my mind from thinking its a bad day to be back country to thinking its safe, just because theres a pit thats been dug and the consensus is that its safe.
well, if there’s 40 tracks it’s more obvious.. but what if there’s only 1 set or 2? Many many fatal avalanches have been set off by people following tracks.
re: pits
ok, so you’ve run into people who think they know what they’re doing when they’re digging pits but don’t - so you think they shouldn’t bother with pits and just ride?
I tend to look at a favourable pit result as just one check off the checklist. Like JJ’s 5 flags
I think we are basically arguing the same thing with a few minor disagreements i.e take as many precautions as possible and then take some more.
one or two ahead of you…..your right thats a different story. doesnt tell you much at all.
just remember there has been piles of people caught in avalanches after their guides have dug pits as well 
.
shall we try to keep arguing even though we’re on the same side? it’s not so easy
Its called…I should be doing statistics but debating Gamblor is more fun.
Gamblor…do you have any any tips on cheap but reliable transceivers and probe packages? used a couple of different types in Scandi-land and they were ok. prefer one that is really simple to use. really want to get a set for me and my gf. she had them at the college she was in but they were a bit old and not particularly well designeed. plus I want to convince some of my mates to get the same type so we are all on the same page. also have you ever used a Avlung? was thinking something like this http://www.backcountry.com/backcountry-access-tracker-dts-tour-package
If anyone is interested enough, here are some paper citations on the subject that are pretty interesting
Patterns of death among avalanche fatalities: a 21-year review. CMAJ. 2009 Mar 3;180(5):507-12. Epub 2009 Feb 12.
Technological advances in avalanche survival.Wilderness Environ Med. 2002 Summer;13(2):143-52.
i have an avalung, and I used to have that tracker beacon. I’ll delve into that tomorrow. Back to the stats text book!
good analogy about the lions deano.
RedJames, you absolutely cannot learn online. Getting a book is a good start, but you really need a field course to learn. Expect to pay about $100/day. You learn how to use beacons and you practice using them. You learn route-finding (you learn which bits of the mountain are safe to ascend/descend and which are the dangerous parts), you learn how to dig pits and what types of snow there are, and which are safe and which are unstable. In mine, the final part was a simulation avy scenario. One of the guides yelled from the top of a ridge, ‘Hey, there’s been an avy - my friends are buried!’ and we had to run up, look at the clues, split into teams and find the victims. We were timed. We found the beacon (in a backpack) in 3 mins (from the time looking) but we couldn’t find the victim that wasn’t wearing a beacon. We made a probe line and looked all over. They stopped us after 40 mins. My arms were so sore from probing. Anyways, it really teaches you how futile it is looking for someone without a beacon.
Yeah I found a few in Whistler for around $250. But I may as well read up on it til then. . . thanks
To be fair to Redjames…..he is far from the only person to have gone out of bounds without the right gear. its not exactly like any of the resorts go out of their way to advertise the fact that people die every season in avalanches (so a lot of people that haven’t done it before don’t know). and if your going to be silly enough to do it and have a choice between somewhere where some one has already been and completely untracked, your odds are still better going with the tracked spot.
Beacon, probe and shovel are a must BUT if you use these things as an excuse/amp up.. ie “I wouldnt go out in there in these conditions but ive got a probe/shovel/ transceiver so it will be ok” , you are just as bad. The best trick is to avoid an avalanche altogether!
as for digging pits….....that is a hoax in my book. its the most un-precise science ever! to have even a chance of getting it right, you need to be a local, who has years of experience and is doing it constantly, and even then they get it wrong a hell of a lot. for someone that just does a season here and there or doesnt dig pits everyday (ME!) it is next useless.
So Redjames….you mad a mistake (every one does!), but your taking tips on board (not many do!), and you seem like your keen to get into a course and get the gear…...id say your on the right track
Thanks mate
...do you have any any tips on cheap but reliable transceivers and probe packages?
I have a spare probe around here somewhere (Sydney). It’s a brand new Burton RED if you’re interested.
I’m here in Wanaka at the moment, believe right now your would be incredibly unlucky to get caught by an Avy right now, its about 50% of the snow on the ground as there was this time last year, it has been bluebird everday so far which has kinda made up for it but still not all I was hoping it would be after watching the footage of snow to sea level 3 weeks or so ago, that has well and truly GONE!
snow parkkkkk!
Mt Hutt is closest to Christchurch but is very suspect-able to wind issues
You were spot on there TJ - only got 2 days out of 4 last week but am thrilled that I got those anyway and got to ride a real big mountain (Mt Hutt) with chair lifts and everything… 
There were some amazing boarders there too including a big crew from Japan. Apparently the snow has been worse - most of the higher black runs were sketchy as the snow was being continously blown away but the bigger runs (mostly blue, blue/black) were all fine and all lifts were running.
Some of the other fields in the area closed too because of the winds (Porters, Cheeseman) - I heard Craigieburn was open though but that the snow was average.
So sad my season is finished now 
I wuz just starting to have fun. But NZ is awesome - Be back next year for sure 
Chur bro!
I got back yesterday, not the trip I was expecting but much better than being at work, will do a trip report when I have time.
Also just got back from a trip to Wanaka. Snow Park is soooo fun! =)