New Zealand 2011
I want to thank enzed for the information he has provided for me. Next time I head out of bounds I will expect to be much more prepared.
Deano your input was not needed. mmmk thanks
haha my input is what every single other person was thinking…
it is plain stupid to head out of bounds without at least a proper beacon.
and your welcome.
The Rescue beckon we used with Southern Lake were a joke. I had no confidence in it at all. Lucky for me there was no chance of that happen on the day I went. The Technology has improve but very expensive to be used in snow recco. The heli company used the reflect type. Where the new Technology uses a different method of detecting.
Tracks are no indication of a slope being safe. The stress that YOUR track puts on the slope may be the tipping point.
As mentioned already, RECCO is a dead body retrieval system. I agree that outerwear companies who advertise it as something to save you in an avy should be shot.
The odds are that if you don’t die of trauma in the slide itself, you have 15 mins before your chances of surviving go downhill. Think about it for a bit. Can you hold your breath for 15 minutes?try that again with snow down your throat and a big fat gorrilla sitting on your chest. So, if your buddies amazingly find you without beacons or probes and manage to dig down to you through concrete avy debris, you’ll be relying on them knowing first aid & being able to call in a heli. Your insurance might have been voided by going out of bounds too, and helis rescues aren’t discounted.
Alright, that’s what could happen to you. But what if you don’t know basic backcountry rules like ‘don’t traverse/drop in above another group’? You could set off a slide which takes out a group below. That is what scares me. If you go and get caught and die alone then fine. If you go and kill others, now that’s just wrong.
Ok, so enough with the lecture. You did something stupid but nothing happened - cool. Take what you’ve been told, and either 1)stay out of the bc or 2) be serious about it and take a course and buy the gear. It’s really expensive, but can you put a price tag on your life?
what do you reckon about the avy courses, should I do level one course or can I gain enough knowledge from online courses?
Definitely do an avalanche course. They take you out there and teach you a lot of practical skills and you use the equipment. It’s not something you can learn online.
haha my input is what every single other person was thinking…
it is plain stupid to head out of bounds without at least a proper beacon.
and your welcome.
Honestly I am trying to take the advice and work with it. Maybe some constructive criticism would be good . . .
yeah I was thinking that. il look into it
im sorry, i will rephrase it so it is constructive.
constructive criticism would be that “your an idiot if you head out of bounds with out training or an avy beacon. do yourself a favour and get a beacon, and do an avy 1 course at the very least”
better?
as much as you dont like the way im talking to you, its just retarded to go out of bounds, when no one else knows your there except the guys with you, and the only way you tested the snow pack was with simply looking at other ppls old tracks and assuming its safe.
i mean, thats like seeing footprints leading into a lion enclosure and going ” oh yeh, there is footprints here already. must be safe”
good analogy about the lions deano.
RedJames, you absolutely cannot learn online. Getting a book is a good start, but you really need a field course to learn. Expect to pay about $100/day. You learn how to use beacons and you practice using them. You learn route-finding (you learn which bits of the mountain are safe to ascend/descend and which are the dangerous parts), you learn how to dig pits and what types of snow there are, and which are safe and which are unstable. In mine, the final part was a simulation avy scenario. One of the guides yelled from the top of a ridge, ‘Hey, there’s been an avy - my friends are buried!’ and we had to run up, look at the clues, split into teams and find the victims. We were timed. We found the beacon (in a backpack) in 3 mins (from the time looking) but we couldn’t find the victim that wasn’t wearing a beacon. We made a probe line and looked all over. They stopped us after 40 mins. My arms were so sore from probing. Anyways, it really teaches you how futile it is looking for someone without a beacon.
im sorry, i will rephrase it so it is constructive.
constructive criticism would be that “your an idiot if you head out of bounds with out training or an avy beacon. do yourself a favour and get a beacon, and do an avy 1 course at the very least”
better?as much as you dont like the way im talking to you, its just retarded to go out of bounds, when no one else knows your there except the guys with you, and the only way you tested the snow pack was with simply looking at other ppls old tracks and assuming its safe.
i mean, thats like seeing footprints leading into a lion enclosure and going ” oh yeh, there is footprints here already. must be safe”
You are right mate I do not like the way you are talking to me
good analogy about the lions deano.
RedJames, you absolutely cannot learn online. Getting a book is a good start, but you really need a field course to learn. Expect to pay about $100/day. You learn how to use beacons and you practice using them. You learn route-finding (you learn which bits of the mountain are safe to ascend/descend and which are the dangerous parts), you learn how to dig pits and what types of snow there are, and which are safe and which are unstable. In mine, the final part was a simulation avy scenario. One of the guides yelled from the top of a ridge, ‘Hey, there’s been an avy - my friends are buried!’ and we had to run up, look at the clues, split into teams and find the victims. We were timed. We found the beacon (in a backpack) in 3 mins (from the time looking) but we couldn’t find the victim that wasn’t wearing a beacon. We made a probe line and looked all over. They stopped us after 40 mins. My arms were so sore from probing. Anyways, it really teaches you how futile it is looking for someone without a beacon.
Yeah I found a few in Whistler for around $250. But I may as well read up on it til then. . . thanks
FEATURED FEATURE WITH JAY WALSH - SNOW PARK NZ
Red - good for you for taking the course. Honestly, it’s a fun day or two out in the mountains. When you think of a training course it often doesn’t sound fun, but I really enjoyed mine. You won’t do much snowboarding (if any) but it’s nice to be out in the snow. (We weren’t allowed to bring boards/skis but I rode my avy shovel down the mountain back to the cars). They teach you about how heavy the responsibility of being out there is, but I found that along with that, the peace & quiet of the backcountry that day really motivated me to learn all I can so I can do it more often, and more safely.
I did a 1-day ‘Intro to Avalanche Safety’ in NZ. Line choice, snow stability tests, and beacon/recovery training. I’m moving to Salt Lake City, Utah in the US in about 2 months and will definitely be signing up to do a more intensive course.
The rewards of the backcountry are pretty big, but there’s a bit of work required to truly earn your turns out there. Have fun.
Now back to NZ - looks like I’ll be home for a few weeks and will get some spring shred in enn zed! Farkyehbro!
good analogy about the lions deano.
RedJames, you absolutely cannot learn online. Getting a book is a good start, but you really need a field course to learn. Expect to pay about $100/day. You learn how to use beacons and you practice using them. You learn route-finding (you learn which bits of the mountain are safe to ascend/descend and which are the dangerous parts), you learn how to dig pits and what types of snow there are, and which are safe and which are unstable. In mine, the final part was a simulation avy scenario. One of the guides yelled from the top of a ridge, ‘Hey, there’s been an avy - my friends are buried!’ and we had to run up, look at the clues, split into teams and find the victims. We were timed. We found the beacon (in a backpack) in 3 mins (from the time looking) but we couldn’t find the victim that wasn’t wearing a beacon. We made a probe line and looked all over. They stopped us after 40 mins. My arms were so sore from probing. Anyways, it really teaches you how futile it is looking for someone without a beacon.
Yeah I found a few in Whistler for around $250. But I may as well read up on it til then. . . thanks
To be fair to Redjames…..he is far from the only person to have gone out of bounds without the right gear. its not exactly like any of the resorts go out of their way to advertise the fact that people die every season in avalanches (so a lot of people that haven’t done it before don’t know). and if your going to be silly enough to do it and have a choice between somewhere where some one has already been and completely untracked, your odds are still better going with the tracked spot.
Beacon, probe and shovel are a must BUT if you use these things as an excuse/amp up.. ie “I wouldnt go out in there in these conditions but ive got a probe/shovel/ transceiver so it will be ok” , you are just as bad. The best trick is to avoid an avalanche altogether!
as for digging pits….....that is a hoax in my book. its the most un-precise science ever! to have even a chance of getting it right, you need to be a local, who has years of experience and is doing it constantly, and even then they get it wrong a hell of a lot. for someone that just does a season here and there or doesnt dig pits everyday (ME!) it is next useless.
So Redjames….you mad a mistake (every one does!), but your taking tips on board (not many do!), and you seem like your keen to get into a course and get the gear…...id say your on the right track