Toe/Heel Drag
Hello - not sure if this is quite the right place to post this, but it seems as good as any.
I purchased a 2009/2010 Burton T6 159 board in the sale for the forthcoming 2010/2011 season which, happily, I’m going to be spending in Whistler, training to be an instructor. I’m 5’10’, weigh about 70kgs and have size 10 (UK)/11 (US) boots. I’ve recently started looking into getting some bindings and have come across quite a lot of chat about toe and heel drag which is starting to worry me a little bit.
The 159 T6 has a waist width of 246mm at its narrowest and I’m starting to worry that my size 10 boots might be a bit too big and will end up causing toe/heel drag! I’ve checked the Burton sizing charts and they indicate that the T6 can take small and medium sized bindings. The medium sized bindings can take boot size ranging from (UK) 7 - 10, so technically I think that everything should work. It’s probably worth noting though that the large Burton bindings take boot sizes from (UK) 9 upwards, so having a (UK) 10 I’m clearly in the overlap zone.
Do you guys think that this setup will work or do you think that I’m going to end up with some nasty drag?
I guess to be honest it’s a bit late for me it if doesn’t work, but given that the season’s still a few months off, I thought that I might be able to do something about it if it was going to be a problem. The obvious solution (other than buying a wider board!) would be to get some risers, but I’m not sure whether you can get them for Burton boards that have ‘the channel’ as the T6 does. Other than that, I guess that I could play around with my setup to try and minimise any overhang…
Any opinions would be very welcome!!
Thanks very much
Andy
Hey mate,
The best thing to do is set your bindings up exactly how want your stance to be, then strap your boots in and make sure the bindings are centred (in relation to heel and toe). With your board strapped in, tilt the board towards the heel edge and see how much angle you can make before the boots hit the ground. Then do the same for the toe edge. Depending on your boots (some brands/styles have smaller footprints) and your bindings (some bindings have taller toe ramps etc..), you will probably have more than enough clearance.
Chances are it will be fine. Not necessarily the ideal waist width for size 10, but I doubt you will have any noticeable problems. It really depends on your stance (as Mizu mentioned), your boots, and your bindings.
I have ridden as narrow as 142 with size 9 boots, with no problems.
Let me know how you go.
Thanks Both - both replies are reassuring!! I’ve yet to buy bindings for this board, but will make sure that I take my baord and boots to the shop when purchasing. I guess that I can fiddle about with the set up there to make sure that everything fits together and I get enough clearance.
Thanks for the replies
A couple of additional factors to think about:
If you are tall, or use a wider than average stance… the more wide the board will be at the point that your boot is placed. See the Waist Width is the narrowest point, in the center, usually. and it only gets wider as it goes toward the tips, of course… so the wider your stance, the wider the board under your boot…
Also your stance angles can compensate for too narrow of a board between your feet. the steeper angles your bindings are places at, can minimize toe and heel drag too.
But this shouldnt be the fix. If you need a wider board, than you just do.
It used to be said often, that a good fit is to have the most narrow board that your boot size can take.
But I am not sure if this is still true. I find than many boards are getting slightly wider.
Let us know how it works for you.
My guess Andy, is that you’re definitely going to have problems with a standard boot/binding combo - unless you ride a REALLY wide stance.
I also have size US11 boots, and my Burton Vapor 159 is also narrow. Burton claims in all the catalogue/website info that the waist width is of this board 249, but that’s incorrect - it’s actually 247.5 (and I NEVER would have bought the board had I been aware of this). I can cruise around on the board just fine, but I have felt toe drag on my back toe (in Spring conditions). That’s with large burton CO2 bindings set at a centred stance of 22.5/18/-9. I’m still going to persevere, but the prospect of hard/fast carving on it scares the crap out of me - whereas it’s never been a problem with the same boots (Burton ION) on a 250WW Ride board and large Ride bindings..
You didn’t mention what boots you have? If you have the newer “sized down” boots (a US11 is actually the size of a US10) you could be OK (mine aren’t) - as long as you can squeeze them into medium bindings (mine can’t). Many Burton bindings have a serious design flaw - which is that for some boot sizes it’s actually IMPOSSIBLE to properly centre them on some boards. Other brands have an adjustable heelcup, but Burtons do not.
Good luck with it though. 
Many Burton bindings have a serious design flaw - which is that for some boot sizes it’s actually IMPOSSIBLE to properly centre them on some boards. Other brands have an adjustable heelcup, but Burtons do not.
Good luck with it though.
Cant you rotate the binding disc 90 degrees and set tee binding back one hole (in the disc) toward the heel edge of the board, offsetting the binding toward the heel, so that the boot is placed in the center of the board?
Yeah, that’s right - but it’s still not enough. Burton’s discs alone don’t allow for anywhere near the desirable amount of fore/aft adjustment, compared to some other brands.
well, that’s not a problem with the bindings, it’ s a problem with the 3D hole pattern. and now with EST bindings you can adjust them easily to be PERFECTLY centered on the board.
I don’t know dude, size 11’s on a 249ww deck?? I think you were pushing it regardless of the actual waist width being 247.5 as you say. Sell the board and get one the proper size, or squeeze into some 10.5’s with shrink tech. Medium or large bindings won’t have any effect on whether you have toe drag or not
I’ve been riding a 250ww board for MANY years without ever having a toe/heel drag problem - in fact with plenty of room to spare (so realistically, a 249ww really shouldn’t be “pushing it” - as it’s only 1mm difference, and with a deeper sidecut, the underfoot width would be about the same).
I haven’t been using a 3D hole pattern - and I find the adjustment of EST bindings to be lacking as well. It’s nowhere near “infinite” like they claim.
You blokes have got it all wrong! You want as much toe overhang as possible. Haven’t you heard of hanging ten?? 
hahaha, that is some serious toe overhang!! Maybe just stick to heel turns 
Hahahaha. To be fair, the photo makes it look worse than it was, but I took my bindings off that morning, and hurriedly put them back on. Obviously too far forward.
My boots are just about at the limit for the width of my board anyway, but that didn’t help. I was digging in a bit on my toe-side turns, but I persevered out of pure laziness anyway. 
I always have trouble fitting boots well into Burton Bindings… they just seem to create gaps which creates more space being taken up by your boot/binding combo. I have had lots of success using Ride bindings and Union Bindings in XL Size for size 10+ boots. You can also look at bindings with larger toe and heel pads that will lift your boots away from the snow. But if you are a size 10 boot you should be fine on almost anything…