Coal Seam Gas - Conspiracies behind Mining

So, it’s been all over the news today. I don’t see the problem.

It must be politics - for the coming election. Or it’s a conspiracy to slow the progress of cheaper, cleaner, less destructive energy sources buy generating public fear. Just like nuclear power plants.

I live 500m from a CSG mine. It’s small and I can only hear it in the wee hrs of the morning IF I’m awake, IF they are drilling or hammering (which is rare now it’s established).

Is it fear mongering or is there a genuine reason to worry? What is the danger? because through all I hear in the media there is no real report about the danger - just worst case scenario’s (just like worst case nuclear dangers, but at the end of the day the benefits FAR outweigh any danger).

Cant say i have researched too hard into CSG but i have nuclear and im all for it.

I haven’t done much research into it but my initial reaction was - so what? (ie i don’t see the prob either)

The main problem arises when the hydraulic fracturing results in seepage into or out of the water table. Particularly if there’s an aquifer that’s important for supplying local spring or waterways. There are alot of volatile compounds that are stored inside deposits and uncontrolled release of these can lead to environmental air pollution or a more serious pollution of water ways resulting in long term damage to underlying water tables.

The problem here is that it’s not going to happen every time on every well on every operation… But dealing with these massive forces, it’s not 100% foolproof where the cracks are going to go and what underlying geological features will be affected, so when it does goes wrong (if at all) it’s a big problem.

Personally I think it’s crazy. There’s more than enough natural gas reserves around to keep us going for many many years. And natural gas extraction is heaps safer for the environment.

More than likely in 30-50 years, a really large proportion of our base-load electrical supply will (hopefully) come from thorium nuclear reactors which produce low-grade, non-weaponizable waste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power).

Anyway, my two cents….

Mate your 2c is worth a million (given your position and education).

But it still makes me wonder how prevalent a threat of seepage into the water supply is. I’m not just 500m from a CSG but only 1.5km from the Nepean River - the CSG is just 1km form the river and they can mine 2km horizontal from the entry point. The Nepean River rings the Sydney basin and runs through it’s most populated urban areas and I’m at the very first residential area upstream for all of Sydney.

Surely, they wouldn’t take the risk of threatening Australia’s largest populated residential area. It’s all B.S. imo

My biggest resolve is showing my daughter there is no real threat, that the public protest and the media can’t be trusted, just like my grandfather did when he took me on a tour of Lucas Hieghts at the peak of the anti-nuclear propaganda in the 80’s. Given when she’s with her mum she lives in stable green electoral area and all residence object to CSG.

And after re-reading your post Anti, new theories are emerging in my head.

I heard that most of what is being extracted through CSG is exported to overseas markets.

Yeah I think in 99.9% of cases it’s totally safe….

Would be good to ask a few geologists and see what they reckon.

personally I think the government is pretty loathe to hamper mining development in AUS…. look at the approval of James price point over here in WA. I’m not a greenie, but I’m pretty disappointed its been approved both federally and by the WA govt…

But that’s a whole other kettle of fish!

latest thing I read on it doesn’t sound too good.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/well-reap-what-we-deserve-20130217-2el38.html

Interestingly that article highlights the need for individuals and communities to grow their own food.

Rant: (skip this part if my rants bore you)
When I mentioned this at a Centerlink “finding a job” seminar (that I would be better off financially, spending my time in the vege patch than doing the things Centerlink require me to) I was chastised and told I should earn $ to spend at the supermarket.
I told the seminar holder they were a puppet repeating what they were told to say instead of offering real world solutions and the course they held would in the long term destroy society as would the parenting advice they gave destroy family values and produce more people in need of government assistance (the advice was that I should work as much as I could and spend my money on other people to care for my daughter to show her worker ethics).

“The Man” and society is so focused on controlling the world financially it has lost touch.

I have 3 lime trees that produced no fruit this year because they were untended. Limes are about $1 each (last year I got over 1000 limes).
I also have; 1 lemon/lime spliced tree, mandarine tree, fig, apple and a few others I haven’t had time to attend to. 65% of my responsibilities are still dictated by Centerlink, yet I still can’t declare the time I work in our vege patch without doing considerable more paperwork or declaring myself a primary producer.

All summer I’ve been creating a 20’X30’ vege patch. This would reduce our grocery bill (and the time we spend shopping) and improve our health and the excess would go to neighbours or be sold locally. The only thing we would spend food money for would be meat and milk. Dad is a rec. fisho and we have freezers full of sea food. When I have finished the dam (all that remains is the fence) we will have chooks, ducks and geese again.

Currently our grocery bill exceeds $500/w. Utilising our property would bring that to under $100/w it would feed 8 people immediately then extended family, then neighbours.

WA has a big coastline and the James Price Point mine affects what % of the coast? In an otherwise unpopulated area. The big issue with that operation is who reaps the profits since it’s not Australian owned. Yes there is a ecological concern but the 1000’s of km either side… empty.

Not forgetting that without mining this country would be derelict and not worth living in. Mining assets are all we have that are 100% sustainable, all other industries are there to suport mining in this country. Even the local snow industry wouldn’t be here if we didn’t “mine” for electricity.

The cattle and sheep industry would dry up if we didn’t mine for water.

I did consider titling this thread “Mining”. Might add it now.

I have my reservations about CSG, if it can in fact pollute the water table that’s very scary.  I don’t really know enough about it to make an informed decision, I did watch that latest Matt Damon movie called Promised Land which was interesting but it focused more on the big business aspects of how they get things done rather than tackling the outright environmental issues.  For the record I’m not advocating gleaning information on topics via film and TV, quite the opposite in fact but I was interested to see Mr Damon’s take on a subject he is deadset against.

From my brief reading on the subject it would appear as though we don’t know much about it but mining companies are throwing everything they can into getting as much of it underway before any meaningful examination has been done and consequentially any government legislation brought into place that might make it harder or less profitable for them to make quick, massive dollars.  For this reason alone I would like to see the brakes put on until it the risk/reward ledger is fully visible.  If they spent even 1% of the resources that are spent on climate change “research” I’m sure we would have a much better picture about something that I feel has an exponentially greater capacity to screw us over in the very near future than what the worst climate alarmists are calling for.

snowbum_spaz - 19 February 2013 08:17 PM

WA has a big coastline and the James Price Point mine affects what % of the coast? In an otherwise unpopulated area. The big issue with that operation is who reaps the profits since it’s not Australian owned. Yes there is a ecological concern but the 1000’s of km either side… empty.

Not forgetting that without mining this country would be derelict and not worth living in. Mining assets are all we have that are 100% sustainable, all other industries are there to suport mining in this country. Even the local snow industry wouldn’t be here if we didn’t “mine” for electricity.

The cattle and sheep industry would dry up if we didn’t mine for water.

I did consider titling this thread “Mining”. Might add it now.

I’d argue on a couple of points.
1. 1000’s of km either side… empty. Might be no person living there, but not empty.
2. Mining assets are 100% sustainable?

I get where you are coming from, but I’m getting greener as I get older. 

Spaz, how many people does that $500/w feed? That’s a huge amount of money in the supermarket coffers. Glad to hear you are getting the fruit trees back in order. We lost every apple this year to the damn birds (love/hate relationship) so there’s a new veggie patch and orchard in the build phase at Chill Hill. Fully fenced against the alpacas and rabbits (got our own great wall) and covered to stop the birds, but with holes large enough for the bees to get in. Fruit trees are a long term investment.

Tambo - 20 February 2013 07:59 PM

(got our own great wall)

Built by emperor Nasi Goreng?

hahaha best ad!

I don’t understand Spaz’s living arrangements but based on what I can gather from his post the $500 a week is for 8 people?  The thing I really don’t understand is that Spaz seems to be working a lot but still deals with Centrelink, must be a child support thing I’m guessing.

1. Honestly Tambo I pulled the 1000’s km out of my head. Empty of mining - it’s a pristine wilderness area that I value greatly (must of had a brain fart while typing).
2. 100% sustainable. IE we can continue to mine and extracting resources long after the planet dies from the raping it’s received. Sustain mining operations. (it was a play on the term “sustainable’).

$500/w isn’t for 8ppl.
But it is very complicated, eg: every second week we have an extra mouth (PP), the two nieces are here regularly and we prepare enough food for my sister’s family a couple of nights/w. That bill also covers pet food and things for the house (cleaning product, light bulbs etc). It’s not just for food.
Only 3 of us live here permanently. The grandparents do 90% of the shopping so the kids are spoilt with ice cream, abundant expensive fruit and packaged foods, MacDonalds (once a week), they are served veges with each meal (so they can have the junk food). A lot of wastage happens (only half of each meal get eaten - including the junk).
I find half eaten fruit all the time - they are worse than birds!
And before anyone chastises me - I’m living it up as a RichieRich because I can. I’ve spent all my life below the poverty line until now.
I work off this lifestyle as the live in groundskeeper.

Kind of NBG, because I’m self employed my hrs and wage is averaged over the year. My night work is part time.
In winter I don’t do as many hours - almost none self employed (that generate income) - just headcam sales.
Mostly it is so incredibly difficult to get on the dole that it’s better to put up with the malarky year round - I’ve never had secure employment or regular hours and with a daughter, knowing I at least have $185/w coming (if I have no work) at least I can feed, cloth and get her to school.
Even in summer there is the odd fortnight I receive any paid work.