To all instructors, help with a problem
I was teaching 2 of my friends yesterday. One of them has snowboarded twice before. She managed to learn skating all the way to heelside pendulum and just a very tiny bit of toeside sideslipping. The other one has no experience on a board before and is not very athletic. She has a major problem that I find very hard to help. She cannot get up from the snow. I haven’t tried asking her to get up from the toeside, but from the heelside unless I help her or hold her board from slipping down she cannot get up. This is the first time I’ve experienced someone that cannot get up on a board. She either gets up halfway, then fall back down again or her board just slides down whenever she tries to push up.
From what I noticed, she is sticking out the butt a bit much which is causing her to fall back down again and she pushes the board (flatten the board) a bit much instead of balancing more on the heels which causes the board to slide down. I’ve tried telling her to have one arm in front to balance but that doesn’t help. The only way she can get up right now is by either me holding the board with my foot or directly helping her up.
Any tips or helps would be appreciated.
I’ve taught many students with this problem. The easiest solution is to get them flip over and get up on their toeside. There’s really no harm in doing it that way. It could also encourage them to work on their toeside edge more (more often than not the neglected edge by novice snowboarders).
You could also just keep helping her get up, by sticking your boot under her board, giving her your hand and making her pull herself up. With your foot under the toeside edge, this forces the heel edge to dig in and she will remain stationary. While you are there with your foot under the board, make her relax, loosen up the arms etc., and talk her through putting her body in the correct balanced and aligned stance (knees flexed, upper body straight, eyes looking up, even weight on both feet etc.). Keep doing this every time you help her get up. Keep her in the position for a bit so she can get a feel for it. Do this every time before you start sideslipping. This way she will understand the proper position, and it will let her get a feel for where her body should be and how to feel balanced/stable.
Some students require more patience and practice. Just keep helping her and talk her through the balanced body position. Eventually it will click and it should make it easier for her to get up on her own. She just needs to teach her body where it needs to be to be balanced.
Also show her how to “dig/chop” her heelside edge into the snow before she goes to get up!!!!!
This makes the board stay put somewhat, gives a slight angle for better leverage, provides more of a solid platform to push against, and prevents that uncontrolled sliding that can put someone off when they’re uneasy with the feeling of it already!!!!!
(I still do this when I’m buckling up on a steep section)
* Mizu is neither an Instructor, nor is he a competent snowboarder!!!!!
Thanks for the advice
@Jeremy: If you start with getting up on the toeside, I take it you start teaching her toeside sideslipping first then? I’ve been showing and telling her about the proper body position, even weight on both feet, etc. I guess it just takes time for her to get a feel for it. She has no problem getting up with my foot under the board or me pulling her up. Once on her own, her balance was just all over the place.
@Mizu: I did tell her to be balanced more on her heels and dig the edge, but I think I didn’t show her with my board strapped on.
Did ya get her to Chop the boards edge into the surface of the snow?????
There are literally some people who do not have the flex in their ankles to stand up from a sitting position. We used to get really confused about this in my first season teaching until one of the instructors said she could not stand up and stay still, she proceeded to show us this without snowboard boots on and no board - she could not stand from a sitting position.
These people can eventually learn to stand up while moving - when they push off from the ground they will slide forwards but with some leg muscle and balance, can stand up and then stop themselves.
There are also some chubby people who cannot get their body mass close enough to their board to stack their weight over the heel edge as well - essentially, they lack enough flex through the knees and waist due to their body shape.
The best thing for them is to teach them toe side floating leaf so they can stand up on their toes and then progress to doing a heelside c turn, or teach them how to strap in while standing - also check the forward lean on their bindings as this can assist with the heel edge pressure and ankle flex.
I think that heelside side slipping is much easier than toeside, initially!!!!!
It is, for most people, but you have to teach according to the person and not always focus on things like what is easier. Look more at what will benefit them - being able to stand up by themselves is huge, the will not only feel self reliant, but be able to practice and actually snowboard in their own time without someone there to constantly help them stand up.
@mizu: I didn’t get her to chop the edge to the snow, rather more like just dig it in a bit.
@Sam: That’s what I noticed too. She seemed to be very far from the board when she’s trying to stand up. I always have to tell her to bring the board closer to her body so she can stack the weight over the heel edge better. But she can stand up from a sitting position without the board and with 1 foot strapped it. But I think the main problem is probably her lack of mobility and flexibility in the lower body. Another question for you. You mention to go from standing up on the toeside then learning to do heelside turns. So during this phase you would skip toeside sideslipping and pendulum until later on?
No, keep with the progression - but instead of heelside slip sliding and floating leaf, start with toeside slip slides and floating leaf. Then you can do multiple ways to help her with the heel side. If she grasps toeside exercises get her to have a go and standing on the heelside by herself, something may have clicked in her head and now she understands it a bit better and has more success at it.
Also try to use a steeper slope for slip sliding and float leaf exercises, as it is easier to stand up on steeper terrain.
Each is an option, this is not a progression.
1. Two footed heelside J turns, then progressing to a heelside C turn. Keep it on some super mellow green terrain to help confidence in putting weight over the front foot.
2. Help her stand up on the heels until she gets heelside slip sliding and floating leaf - then carry on with the normal progression.
3. If confident, just let them try a heelside C turn - most people will get this almost straight away because it’s so natural. Technique will be awful but most people can reel it round anyway.
Thanks for the tips Sam, appreciate it.
Thanks for the advice
@Jeremy: If you start with getting up on the toeside, I take it you start teaching her toeside sideslipping first then? I’ve been showing and telling her about the proper body position, even weight on both feet, etc. I guess it just takes time for her to get a feel for it. She has no problem getting up with my foot under the board or me pulling her up. Once on her own, her balance was just all over the place.
@Mizu: I did tell her to be balanced more on her heels and dig the edge, but I think I didn’t show her with my board strapped on.
It’s fine to teach toeside sideslipping first. Some instructors will even argue it’s better to teach first. Personally, I always teach heelside first. So if they get up on their toeside you have two options: teach toeside first, or if you/they are confident, you can pivot them around to their heelside while holding onto them (that’s usually what I would do). Make sure you hold onto them and talk them through it.
Also try to use a steeper slope for slip sliding and float leaf exercises, as it is easier to stand up on steeper terrain.
This is where a lot of people go wrong!!!!! It also helps to get the angle in order to “feel” the edges that you are using!!!!!
Thanks for the advice
@Jeremy: If you start with getting up on the toeside, I take it you start teaching her toeside sideslipping first then? I’ve been showing and telling her about the proper body position, even weight on both feet, etc. I guess it just takes time for her to get a feel for it. She has no problem getting up with my foot under the board or me pulling her up. Once on her own, her balance was just all over the place.
@Mizu: I did tell her to be balanced more on her heels and dig the edge, but I think I didn’t show her with my board strapped on.
It’s fine to teach toeside sideslipping first. Some instructors will even argue it’s better to teach first. Personally, I always teach heelside first. So if they get up on their toeside you have two options: teach toeside first, or if you/they are confident, you can pivot them around to their heelside while holding onto them (that’s usually what I would do). Make sure you hold onto them and talk them through it.
I think that for a newbie though, grabbing a heelside edge when toeside sideslipping can be a real whiplash headache generator, and put a real downer on a fun day if it happens too many times or in a big way?????
If its any help….
i had this problem early on when learning.
i’m goofy and have badly dislocated my left shoulder many times (its pretty weak and useless)
so getting up heel edge was a nightmare, i couldn’t get the power or angles in my left arm to push me up.
I’d get halfway and start slipping backwards downslope.
So yeh i definitely recommend flipping toeside. removes that early frustration and starts the learning curve.
is she by any chance a goofy but right handed (or viceversa)..? i found that the angles and power in arm were an issue and it just wouldn’t happen.
I ended up sorting later once i was more skilled all round…
as Mizu said, the main thing that helped, was just sitting there after trying…. and thinking about where my board was moving when i was failing. once i’d sorted that i would dig/chop a platform or ramp to push against and it made it much easier.
also as said, get that pushing arm (and bum) right up close to the heel edge.
nothing worse than being frustrated when learning something, so just ditch it for a while and come back to it later.
Also try to use a steeper slope for slip sliding and float leaf exercises, as it is easier to stand up on steeper terrain.
This is where a lot of people go wrong!!!!! It also helps to get the angle in order to “feel” the edges that you are using!!!!!
I hate teaching on super mellow terrain. It’s really hard (especially for the student)!