Progression riding questions
Set the edge, pop, then split your upper and lower body; your upper body pretty much stays in the same place
What.
Do you mean your lower body stays in the same place, while your upper body rotates through the backside 180 with the legs following?
i read it as the opposite as that, legs go through upper body follows.
backside spins off ya heels are f*n ridiculous!!
It all comes down to upper and lower body separation (an important skill when it comes to freestyle anyway). Your upper and lower body can and will rotate independently if you allow it to happen. Think about a frontside boardslide; the upper body counter-rotates and the upper and lower bodies are separated by as much as 180 degrees.
So basically you twist yourself up in the air and then untwist when your legs & board are anchored back on the snow?
Yes, pretty much. You set your heel edge so you have a nice platform to pop from. At this point in time your upper and lower bodies are aligned. Bend your knees and compress a bit so you can release. Entend your legs and pop off your heel edge. Almost simultaneously, split/twist your upper and lower bodies (if you are regular, your upper body goes anti-clockwise and your lower body goes clockwise). This should rotate the snowboard a clean 180 degrees. I would suggest becoming very comfortable with regular backside 180s off your toe edge first, so you are comfortable with the rotation and landing.
Set the edge, pop, then split your upper and lower body; your upper body pretty much stays in the same place
What.Do you mean your lower body stays in the same place, while your upper body rotates through the backside 180 with the legs following?
No, the opposite. The upper body doesn’t move much, you counter-rotate and the legs go first, then the upper body follows.
Watch this video here. Go to about 0:48. Nev shows the difference between the counter-rotated body position (which I would use when learning backside 180s off the heels) and the normal rotated body position (for normal backside 180s for example). You will notice in the counter-rotated position, the upper body is still travelling in the same direction as it was before, while the lower body is rotated 90 degrees. Now we’re just taking the movement a little further and counter-rotating the full 180 degree (or close to it). We use the counter-rotation to initiate the backside spin. Of course the heel edge naturally wants to pop you in the other direction (frontside), so we need to use the counter-rotation to get our lower body rotating in the less natural direction. As you get better you can counter-rotate less; you just need a small counter-rotated movement to initiate the rotation.
Also watch this video from 1:35. It explains it a bit better.
Imagine he has his heel edge set instead of a flat base. As he pops (at 1:40), he counter-rotates his upper body and his lower body rotates backside. We use this exact counter-rotated movement to initiate the backside spin off your heel edge. I hope this is starting to make more sense. 
That’s not a bs spin off the heels which is where this originally started. That’s separation on a rail to control spin, he only moves 90 and 90s back out. If you tried to spin a 180 or more that way you would end up twisted around with your left shoulder pointing up the hill while your left foot was down hill.
This is exactly what needs to happen for backside 180s off the heels. Set the edge, pop, then split your upper and lower body; your upper body pretty much stays in the same place, you separate at the waist and the board rotates 180 degrees.
A bs spin off the heels you would rotate the upper body trying to not move the lower body as if you did, the heels would catch in the snow, after take off you would complete the spin with the legs following the upper body.
Yes, pretty much. You set your heel edge so you have a nice platform to pop from. At this point in time your upper and lower bodies are aligned. Bend your knees and compress a bit so you can release. Entend your legs and pop off your heel edge. Almost simultaneously, split/twist your upper and lower bodies (if you are regular, your upper body goes anti-clockwise and your lower body goes clockwise). This should rotate the snowboard a clean 180 degrees. I would suggest becoming very comfortable with regular backside 180s off your toe edge first, so you are comfortable with the rotation and landing.
This makes more sense as an explanation… Up until you say the upper body goes anti clockwise. The upper body would go clock wise.
Yeah, what rider is saying about the upper/lower body turning in opposite direction is correct.
But he just missed a step i think. Cause that is the action that happens just before you land, not as you take off.
The upper and lower body can’t seperate more than 180 degrees. So if you did this at take off, your upper body would turn 90 degrees front side and your lower body would turn 180 backside. Which means the body separation would be 270, which is impossible.
I see it going like this:
1. The part that’s missing is what sam said. At take off, the upper body rotates backside and the lower body follows.
2. Then the part Rider says (The upper/lower body counter rotating) is used to make the board turn the rest of the way, to land perfectly at 180 degrees. This can be a big or small movement depending on how much further you need the board to turn, so that you can land straight.
Does that sound about right?
That’s not a bs spin off the heels which is where this originally started. That’s separation on a rail to control spin, he only moves 90 and 90s back out. If you tried to spin a 180 or more that way you would end up twisted around with your left shoulder pointing up the hill while your left foot was down hill.
It’s counter-rotation. The video is just a simple demonstration of this for those who don’t know what it is. That same separation can be used to teach backside 180s off heels. We’re not talking more than 180s. As you progress the counter-rotation is used less and less. But it’s the easiest way to teach/learn backside 180s off the heels.
bs spin off the heels you would rotate the upper body trying to not move the lower body as if you did, the heels would catch in the snow, after take off you would complete the spin with the legs following the upper body.
I’m not saying to rotate before you’re in the air. You pop, then counter-rotate while you’re in the air. I understand what you’re saying, and I think it can be learnt this way as well. You’re just doing it the opposite way. You’re counter-rotating before you pop, I’m counter-rotating after the pop. Either way you’re using counter-rotation to initiate the backside spin off the heel edge (which naturally wants to rotate you frontside). The counter-rotation fights this and must be used when first learning backside off heels.
Yes, pretty much. You set your heel edge so you have a nice platform to pop from. At this point in time your upper and lower bodies are aligned. Bend your knees and compress a bit so you can release. Entend your legs and pop off your heel edge. Almost simultaneously, split/twist your upper and lower bodies (if you are regular, your upper body goes anti-clockwise and your lower body goes clockwise). This should rotate the snowboard a clean 180 degrees. I would suggest becoming very comfortable with regular backside 180s off your toe edge first, so you are comfortable with the rotation and landing.
This makes more sense as an explanation… Up until you say the upper body goes anti clockwise. The upper body would go clock wise.
I think we’re just doing it the opposite way as explained above. I do rotate my upper body anti-clockwise. You are counter-rotating and then popping. I’m popping and then counter-rotating.
I think your way is harder, albeit probably smoother and the next step in progression for larger rotations. I think my method is the easier first step. Both work though.
ok now im confused! haha
I’ll teach you at the Shred.
spinning is for nerds. Straight airs is where its at 
I’ll teach you at the Shred.
Not trying to sound cocky but if i dont have them on lock by Shred time, i wont even come
to the both of you.
So there are too many words and mass confusing going on I think lol. I thought some visuals might help:
The Backside 180 section starts at about 5 minutes through the vid.
Backside 180s off the heels are exactly the same as bs 180s off the toes. Except you will be coming up the ramp on your heels instead of your toes. Also popping off your heels obviously.
I don’t think they’re necessarily exactly the same. It’s easier to pop off your toes and therefor easier to initiate the rotation. I think this is why counter-rotation is more important when going backside off the heels. I don’t really counter-rotate in the air when doing frontside off the toes; you just pre-wind then unwind the same you would for frontside off the heels.
That said, what I have explained in the paragraph above can still be used for backside off the heels. I just think it’s harder that way for those just learning this new skill. Personally I think it’s easier popping then counter-rotating in the air. But of course it can be done the other way, or even a combination of both. Each to their own I guess.
I’m really enjoying this discussion. The more I think about it, the more I realise there’s many ways to make it happen. Personally I’m just trying to explain it the simplest way as I see it, and as I was taught (on session with Jose).